Safety and this sites responsiblity...

[smrtgrip]

This is in reference to the lowbudget,lowgreymatter 'hoodmount' pic submitted by wes, of a cameraman perched on the front of a car with nothing but a rope around his shouderblades(no harness nothing to prevent him from getting dragged under the car if something went wrong)

Editor's Note: The Photo is Here: http://www.crewpix.com/gallery/Indie/Untitled8?full=1


 if you haven't seen this pic it's posted twice once in the 'cool rigs' (oh please!) section and currently it is on the cover of the 'indy' section (i think) anyways you can't miss it.  Not only in my oppinion is this one of the stupidest things I've seen in well over a decade in this buisiness, the poster(the AD on the job) actually brags that the car (most likely driven by the talent) was doing 50km, and then says "don't try this at home kids".  So I'm wondering what people think about these obviously inexperienced folks, shooting a local car commercial with a budget of $3000, and whether it's responsible for crewpix to post these kind of shots alongside the rest.  Should there be a seperate section called 'What not to do' so that this flagrant dissregard for safety doesn't represent the rest of us...the Toronto industry as a whole?                    

[Anonymous]

I'm sure the rental house that owns the camera (and most likely rented it at a reduced rate) would love to see what these chumps were up to.                    

[smrtgrip]

Dude your missin the point...it's definitely not about the camera.                    

[Anonymous]

Sure it is. A DP with the intellegence level of that one could surely be replaced but finding another camera when it's busy can sometimes be a hard task.                    

[Brent]

Hey Smrtgrip,

I am happy to see this discussion here. One of the goals in starting CrewPix was to provide a place where film crews can discuss issues exactly like this one. Each day on set we are faced with decisions that can literally be life and death. A photo like this reminds us that what might seem like a good idea on the day, can seem like lunacy when you look back on it.

Do you climb onto the hood of a car and drive around at 50kmh to get a cool shot?

Do you go without a safety chain on a light because someone is yelling at you to get your ladder out of the shot?

Do you stay by the camera pulling focus while a car speeds towards you because they couldn't afford remote focus?

I feel that each crew member has the right and obligation to let people know when they feel unsafe. Any time I have done it, (and believe me I have) I have been treated with respect and understanding. We need to  make sure that new film crews and students know they can do this. Selling cars, toothpaste or whatever should never be a matter of life or death.

One time I refused to do a shot was when they wanted a small plane, with a regular non-commercial pilot, to take off very low over the camera. The shot needed a focus pull but it didn't get one. I would rather be alive to see blurry rushes than risk that. Here is the photo:  http://www.crewpix.com/gallery/Silly/cp00014


Another time we were shooting a black panther in a studio, extremely close with the camera on the floor. I believed that the camera crew needed to be dangerously close to the wild animal and the animal wrangler backed me up. We actually stopped shooting until a remote focus was brought in.  (When asked whether he would use a tranquilizer gun if the animal attacked a crew member, he said "no, tranquilizers take too long. I have a shotgun." Besides the fear for my personal safety, I couldn't imagine being the person responsible for that majestic animal being shot!)

Strange business, this filmmaking!                    

[smrtgrip]

Just to add to what Brent has said about your right to speak up.  Everyone...and I mean everone should have a copy of the labour ministry's 'Safety Guidelines for the Film and Television Industry in Ontario' to obtain a free copy talk to your safety rep if your in films or any Ministry of Labour office or

Publications Section
Ministry of Labour
400 University av, 9th flr
m7a 1t7

416 326 7731
1 800 268 8013(ext 6-7731)
http://www.gov.on.ca/lab/main.htm

  I also belive you can get them at the film liason office as well.

  It's critical to be informed if you feel something is unsafe and you are to speak up, the guideline booklet has step by step instructions for work refusal and how to protect yourself in the event of a disagreement.  Brent's example of the airplane buzzing the camera is a perfect one...the guidelines state that if a distance of 500 feet is not maintained during flight it is regarded as a stunt and either special briefing, pesonnel or compensation may be appropriate depending on the danger assesment.  In that paricular case it is obvious that a locked off or remotely opperated camera would have been the correct choice.  Brent wisely listened to his instincts that it wasn't safe, but with the guidelines in hand his task of refusing to do the shot would have been easier. (sorry Brent I'm assuming you didn't have the booklet 'cause that pic was a while ago pls correct me if I'm wrong).

  In this age of increasing scrutiny into how and what we do in the industry, it's encumbent on all of us to stay informed of our rights and procedures.  It is not easy in such a fast paced and ever changing business.                    

[Brent]

Here is the link I had been looking for:
Safety Guidelines for the Ontario Film and Television Industry
http://www.filmsafety.ca/guidelines.html

Everyone should read this, print it, and keep it in their kit.                    

[Anonymous]

Hello all active crew members.  

This is Clement Lush, yes, the "idiot" on the Saturn car rig.  Obviously, you all work on productions with enough money and crew to be as safe as you want to be.  I have been to film school and I'm very proud of the work I've done with my own company Lush Brothers.  We make real independent films and commercials.  Our first feature length film "Loose Change" was shoot on Super 16mm and cost 12 grand.  If any of you have any background at all in the real independent film world then you might realize that sometimes you have to take your balls out of you girlfriends' purses and get the shots you want.  I can't just make a phone call and get what I want as I eat my lunch from the craft services truck.  

Someone mentioned the safty handbook for productions?  I've never heard of it and if someone gave it to me I'd wipe my ass with it.  We do extensive test on all rigs and every crew member, all four of them, are always given the choice to participate in any set up.  

Not one of you pussies would be able to handle the pace of a real indy film set.  My crew and I love making films and we'll do anything to get it in the can the way we see it in our heads.  If you don't like it, stay on your big sets and eat your cookies.  And next time you feel like beating someone down for trying to do what they love, be a man and leave your name.  

Clement Lush                      

[Anonymous]

Scary!



OK. Let me get this straight: "Doing what you love" is shooting a car commercial for less money than the dealer makes on a single sale? Your mom must be so proud.

How do you "do extensive tests" on a rig where a guy kneels on a car's bumper with a rope around his shoulders? We did it once and nobody died so it must be OK?!?

I'm glad you gave your real name, because now people can consider your attitude on safety before deciding to hire you. (Or are you so "indy" that hire is a bad word?)

I wouldn't trust you in the production office or the craft truck, let alone on set where the dangerous stuff is.

Don't tell me that there are no fresh-baked cookies on indy film sets?!? Barbaric, no wonder you are suicidal.


Dude - getting screwed by General Motors into shooting a commercial for $3K is NOT INDY FILM, it's just dumb.                    

[Anonymous]

Thank you once again for proving my point about crew members on big sets that think they are making films.  I might not be as safe as I should be all the time but at least I make my films the way I want to.  
I take the jobs I can get when I can get them and I do them with my own ideas and shots.  I'm sure you get to do that all the time.  

Just because you hang a light on some big set doesn't mean you're making a film.  That's just like working on the line at GM.  

I'm sure the director, if he even knows who you are, wouldn't give your opinon a second thought.  

I would love to work as a DP on a big set with all the safty regs, and a crew that will get me anything I want, but that, especially in Canada, isn't always possible.  

I like making films my way and we just thought some of you out their on the web might find the photo interesting.  

Don't be mad at me because I'm doing what I love and you just do what your told.  

Thanks for being a man and leaving your name.  
My name is Clement Lush and anyone out there that wants to shoot with no money and get the shots they want can call me.  

And if you must know, the camera is mine, I worked long and hard to buy that camera and I believe I can do with it what I want.  

Sorry for trying to share.  We won't bother next time.  

CLEM                    

[Anonymous]

I think everyone is over re-"acting".  Think about it...the budget was $3000 to film a Car commercial.  I actually saw the commercial the other day, and for a local low budget one it was amazing.  Id like to see you all try and do it!  From what I hear, Wes and Clem are really good at what they do, and if they are willing to take the risk for the good of the shoot, then so be it.  Its about time we start seeing some people with passion and enthusiam for their job!!!!  My hats off to you Wes and Clem.  Keep the film industry alive.
Besides, if something ever happened, they could always enter the video into America's Dumbest Film Makers.                    

[Anonymous]

Even though I might not totally agree with Clement's Saturn Car Rig, you must admit that he gets the job done.  If I didn't have a big budget and wanted someone on set that I knew could get me what I wanted without asking for more money, this would be the kind of guy I would want with me.  

I'm not trying to burn anyone but it seems like most of the responses to this picture are worried about the money.  How much he is or isn't making.  Is that really the point of filmmaking, and if it is, shouldn't we ask ourselves why we pursued this field in the first place.

Maybe he's not as lucky as some of you and never found his way onto big sets, who knows, I'm just saying, it's not always about the money.  

Let's all admit one thing, from Clement's replys, he seems pretty passionate about what he does.  I thought that was a good thing?

Clement Supporter                    

[Anonymous]

This message is for all of you people that obvioulsy have nothing better to do than bash someone's hard work.  

Get a JOB!!!!!!!  When you are on set, you can do what you want to do, and when Wes and Clem are on set, they will do what they want to do.  As long as they arent putting your life in "danger", shut the hell up.

I would work for them anyday....at least i know that there is passion on the set.  Do whatever it takes to get the job done!!

Maybe you all should re-evualte why you are in the industry.  IS it because you love what you do and put your heart into it? Obvioulsy not.                    

[Anonymous]

Wow, I love this site and I think the photo of the Car Rig is amazing.  I'm not a filmmaker I just love looking at the pix on this site.  It seems to me that some of the reaction to this photo are uncalled for.  I'm sure I will be blasted for making a comment when I'm not a filmmaker but I just had to.  

Get the pickel out of your asses and let the dude do what he wants.  My God, are we all so self-important and self-righteous that we have to have everyone do what we do.  

It sounds like the film industry is full of exactly what most people think it's full of...pompous know-it-alls.  

Thanks for confirming the stereotype.
Love the site.                    

[Anonymous]

One of my good friends was in that commercial. I was lucky enough to check out the whole procedure, so let me say this: Not only was the crew professional they were a blast to work with! The equipment, plan, direction, and attitude was up beat and efficient. These guys worked hard! Took risks that resulted in a commercial that was interesting and anything but the norm. If I'm not mistaken it's that sort of talent that gets people noticed!!!!! Maybe Clement and the LUSHBROS crew didn't follow proper "procedure" but not once did they ask anyone to do something unsafe. They did it themselves-with their own balls. So for all the haters....get your kilts outta your ass. Thanks guys for an awesome day-for taking care of us (feeding us). Keep up the great work.[/i]                    

[Anonymous]

Hey everyone,
     This is Wes the AD on the Saturn Commercial.  I have worked on many indie sets over the last 4 years and I must admit that working on a LUSHBROS. Production is one of the most enjoyable sets I've ever worked on.  
     I've been on Commercail sets, faeture sets, Imax sets, PSA sets and short film sets ranging from huge budget to working for nothing.  I met Clem while working at a post production house in Toronto, he asked if I would AD on his feature film "LOOSE CHANGE"  I agreed even though I wasn't getting paid.  I gave up my whole summer to shoot with him and I must say it was one of the best summers of my life.  
       I saw something in Clement and his brother that had never seen before, I saw two guys from a small town doing something they love with what they had.  If you were to see his demo reel you would be amazed at one someone can do with no money.  Its called being creative, how do you think they did it "Back in the day"  If they need a shot of a plane flying over the camera they didn't cry about not having a "remote follow focus"  (You pussy)  They set the camera up and shot it.  
       I love how "Independant films"  have the budget of $250 thousand when we shot a film for 12 grand on super 16, with a full hd transfer, full tape to tape, full edit, full audio mix, full digital compositing and an awsome credit sequence.  I would love to see any of you do that.  
       When we want to shoot something we shoot it with our money, from our bank accounts, there are no sponsers or production company we beg for half a million dollars.  We work hard to do the things we do and i apologize if we can't afford a camera car on our set but I garuntee you'd never know we are low budget film makers with the stuff we produce.

Thanks again for supporting your fellow indie filmmakers!!!

WES EVANS OF WES SIDE PHOTOGRAPHY AND LUSHBROS.ENT                    

[Brent]

Wes called me a pussy. He's funny!

I've gotta admit that some of these recent comments have me thinking.

We are spoiled on big shoots simply because we know we can demand safe conditions. We wear harnesses when going up 11 feet on a lift for crying out loud. The problem is the $big$ fine if the Ministry of labour sees you without one.

I have never for a moment believed that I was "making films" while shooting toothpaste squirting onto a well-lit toothbrush, or watching little Jimmy pretend to enjoy his 58th bowl of picture perfect commercial cereal.

I admire you guys who can empty your bank accounts to shoot something you believe in.

I am also impressed that Mr. Lush was able to rally so many supporters to post here. Good job.

Don't let these philosophical discussions prevent you guys from upping some more pix. You've got the most viewed picture in the Indy gallery!

So where do we surf to see the Lush Bros demo reel?                    

[Anonymous]

I must admit that when I saw the discussion about this photo I was extremly upset.  I never realized that one photo could cause such an up roar.
    I sent all my film maker friends an e-mail and asked them to support us.  I apreciate Brents last comment and thank you for the complement.  I will try to keep them coming.  As far as the demo reel goes we do not have a web site as of yet, we just perchused a dv cam and computer editing system we are trying to pay off.  Maybe one day our paths will cross.  Till then, keep checking out our photos from time to time.
Thanks Wes                    

[Anonymous]

Hello Brent,

I don't think that Wes was calling you a pussy, I think he was making a general statement about some of the messages that stated that myself and my crew were amateurs, idiots, dumb and stupid.  I think this would make anyone upset.  We're just trying to make it like everyone else in this industry.  

We had no idea that one photo could gain so much attention and negativity.  I was a little taken off gaurd when someone told me to visit this site and read what people where saying about me and what I do.

We are not strictly independent.  I would love to be working on a big set making better money, but I just don't want to work in film if I don't have some creative input, and you know how hard that can be.  I think that's why my crew is so loyal to the Lush Brother's, because we want their input on and off set.  

I hope I didn't offend too many people with my comments and as soon as you can get my demo reel on the web you will be the first to know.  

Stay tuned for photos from our next commercial.  We are shooting a skateboard spot for a local sk8 shop.  Just imagine what crazy set ups we'll have for that one.

Thanks
Lushman                    

[Anonymous]

hello all.  my name is jonathan carby, clement's rigger in the now infamous "strapped to a saturn" picture...     ...and yes he is a crazy mother.  but i think that we are missing the point.  

first off, this is not a safety at work issue.  clement chose the scenerio for himself. with the resources we had, we were as safe as we could be under the circumstances.  he didn't ask a crew member to put them selves at risk.  he acted on something that he felt comforatable with.
i don't consider skateboarding to be very safe.  if clement was pulling a crazy skate move in that picture he'd probly be getting praise instead of flack.  instead the pic gives the impression that we got duped into shooting unsafely for next to no pay.  and yes, if that were true we would need a good talking to.  but that is not the case.  

pardon our heated retorts.  something that we are very proud of is under attack.  and this is hardly the venue for a well developed explanation.  

i realize that this entire discussion was spawned from actual concern for our safety, thank you for that...

... but would one of our critics recomend that we shouln't have shot, since we didn't have the apropriate gear?  

ever ollied a nine set to a blind nose stall?  no?  well i'd rather be strapped onto a saturn anyday.  

-if your gonna go, might as well go out shooting.-

jonBLAZE                    

[smrtgrip]

OK!! this is great! finally we have a discussion goin' on here...I'm the original source of the indignation and thread.  My name is Ryan Acker and I'm a Key Grip.  My apologies for the vitriol I displayed in my previous reactionary remarks but I think most of you are missing the point(s).  First and foremost...you guys were selling someone elses product and that in no way can be construed as a film, indie or not.   I have worked on the big and the small over the years but still have my foot firmly planted in the art film/friends project/indie world, after well over a decade(in fact just got back from an all nighter rigging cameras to a streetsweeper for free, I was the Grip, AD and 2nd AC all rolled into one, and we even broka few rules..shhh).  Clement, I'm sure that you FELT safe and confident about you abilities.  The fact is, that with a little forethought... you could have done that exact same thing but made it safe®.  Little effort to triangulate your position in a HARNESS so if something did go wrong, short of a head on or rolling the fucker, you wouldn't end up road splat...these things could have been done with a few more ropes and a bit of pipe, clamp and a few straps, this gear is lunch money for a highschooler...cheap.  Your life isn't... and I saw that pic and was enraged.   I've both seen and known those who have been seriously fucked up needlessly on even the big shit.  When you set this kind of precedent in the 'comercial' world you lower the bar, and that's where it needs to be set the highest.  Music videos have always mostly been crap, but they're even worse these days, even on the 50-70+g scale because of people pulling of stupid shit making it look like a hun+ and getting lucky and winning an award(s).  Next time around the label says..."well they did this for that much blablabla" with no clue as to what went on to achieve it or the fact that it would be almost impossible to achieve it again or anything like it.  I have taken my fair share of risks in this biz in the name of art, most I would like to think I minimized to the enth degree but I would be lying,  never though on a movie, MOW or any other commercial venture.  The main point is...do your crazy shit on the art/idie films where it will always be a part of the learning curve and it's out of the mainstream, and if you do keep it to yourself, let the shot speak for itself...don't brag about it.  As soon as you bring that shit into the mainstream industry, especially the commercial side...SELLING SHIT!...you're making a mockery of what some of this cities best professionals do and do best, so don't be surprised at the reaction.  Clement et al...I think you may be teetering on the cusp of becoming exciting new members to our community or going down the same path as a few nameless DP's and their crews I've known that would do anything for the shot.  After much more than a decade they're still regarded as hipshot hacks and there's no end in sight to that rep.  Please don't get me wrong...after reading your responses, I got the passion, creativity, hunger and drive that goes into your work, we all take calculated risks every day we're on set with all that could happen, but no shot is worth dying or being  maimed for...unless of course... you get it on film. :twisted:                    

[Anonymous]

My name is Clay Greer and I too, worked on the "infamous rig" shoot.  I'd like to question Mr. Acker's views on how the commercial "in no way can be construed as a film, indie or not."  First off, it was made by an independent production company for next to nothing (aside from the $3000 it cost to make) and by the "no money" factor alone (not to mention the minimal 4 man crew) it qualifies as indie.  I'm not quite sure what you mean by "can't be construed as a film...because something is being sold"  Are you saying that because it's a commercial and something is being sold it's not creative and shouldn't be considered a film?  I'm sure being a "professional" Key Grip you have a lot of creative input on set and hence would be the perfect person to make a judgement here - so now that I think about it, I must be wrong...it shouldn't be considered a film after all...   Secondly: apparently we're "bragging" about our shot?...We posted a cool picture on a website which was made SPECIFICALLY for posting cool pictures - by your reasoning - EVERYONE who EVER posted a picture here would be bragging.  I'd love for a pompous prick like you to come out and work for a REAL independent production company like LushBros.  Though I'm sure there would be more bitching about how your coffee isn't hot enough than there would "actual" work being done.

Clay Greer                    

[Anonymous]

Hey man,

I think we know some of the same people.  Alex Boothby, Andy Robinson and Jeremy Benning.  Actually, Andy is my first camera assistant.  Didn't you work on Songbird?  

Anyways, I agree with you on the indie side of things.  I would love for our commercials to be picked up by any National Ad Campaign, but we only get the jobs for the local shops and dealerships.  They don't have very big advertizing dollars to support big shoots.  They come to me to get something that doesn't look like the typical video ad on a local Rogers or Chex network.  I would hope, and maybe I'm wrong, that our commercials are actually making the smaller market better.  

I would love to make my rigs better then what they are but I haven't had the experience to pull it off.  My rigs always work for me so until you offer your services and show me whats up, I guess I'll have to fumble along for the time being.  

I'm hounored that you think that what I do in Oshawa on a local Saturn Ad would have such an effect on the huge commercial industry as to actualy lower the bar.  I don't think you realize how independent we are.  If there is a steadycam, follow focus or dolly on set, you are above our usual budget.

I am an assistant colourist at Manta DSP and I have worked on numerous commercials.  I am constantly amazed that it is OK to shot 85 shots of a fruit roll up being opened.  But that's beside the point.  

One thing I do know is that very few people could make two 30sec. spots on film for under 3 grand.  I know you think I'm getting hosed but I don't feel that way.  I get a chance to write, direct, DP and edit the way I want and it always gets to air.  I'm happy with that.

I just re-read your message and I have to tell you that your reaction, even though you said it shouldn't be, is surprising.  First of all, we aren't landing on the moon or creating the cure for cancer, we are selling toothpaste, cars and handcream.  Shouldn't we have as much fun doing this job as we can and not take ourselves too seriously.  What do you care if I fell off the front of that truck and my actor drove overtop of me.  

You wouldn't, and neither would anyone else in the commercial industy.

This is way too long, I'm gone.  
clem                    

[Anonymous]

I'm sure being a \"professional\" Key Grip you have a lot of creative input on set and hence would be the perfect person to make a judgement here

Once he's been on a few bigger sets Clay will know just how much creative input the key grip (indeed all the keys) actually does have.

It is often a skilled and trusted key grip (or dolly grip) that quietly suggests cool moves to the camera operator. More often than not just about any great looking shot started out by someone telling their grip "here's what I wanna do, figure out how to do it". That's creative input.

Since you were responding specifically to smrtgrip, I can say that he has provided me with excellent and very appropriate advice and suggestions on my shoots, and dramatically improved some shots in the process. His input is very valuable. He once rigged a crane off the roof of the CN Tower (photo on crewpix). He KNOWS what he's doing.

It's the same with the gaffer creatively lighting the set. They are not just robots that do exactly what the DOP tells them, they have a great deal of input. They are often simply told "Give me something big over there, and some soft fill here". They make a lot of important and "creative" decisions.

If you haven't noticed these types of creative input, it's probably because you have been working with professionals who know how to do it subtly and inconspicuously without embarrasing anybody.

I know on Indy films everyone from the guy who's dad bought the camera to the guy making sandwiches all stand around and vote on how to approach a shot. By the time you are working with professionals everyone already "just knows" what to do so there is a lot less democratic wanking. People know their jobs and do them - creatively and professionally.

You don't have to be the guy calling action and cut to have creative input.                    

[Anonymous]

Hello All,
     As I am sure you can tell this discussion is over.  We were un safe but the shot looks good.  We're happy with the end product and so was the client. There is nothing more to say here so lets just leave it as it is.
Thanks, Wes